<div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"> ^.ext-iotyHome'<a href="http://pessl.ms" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">pessl.ms</a>&rdeb16.25. iahnN<div dir="auto"> .extio'vu"<a href="http://Random.246.ms" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">Random.246.ms</a>~~~~!sh./comm.angredir -x, STR=ular.en-us exec</div></div> <div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 7, 2025, 2:00 AM <<a href="mailto:xorg-request@lists.x.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">xorg-request@lists.x.org</a>> wrote: </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send xorg mailing list submissions to <a href="mailto:xorg@lists.x.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">xorg@lists.x.org</a> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit <a href="https://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg</a> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to <a href="mailto:xorg-request@lists.x.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">xorg-request@lists.x.org</a> You can reach the person managing the list at <a href="mailto:xorg-owner@lists.x.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">xorg-owner@lists.x.org</a> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of xorg digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Does xquartz require root privileges to run on MacOS? (Nick) 2. Re: Question about the future of Xorg (Vladimir Dergachev) 3. Re: Question about the future of Xorg (gene heskett) 4. Re: Question about the future of Xorg (Vladimir Dergachev) 5. Re: Question about the future of Xorg (gene heskett) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2025 17:07:51 -0400 From: Nick <<a href="mailto:atod101101@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">atod101101@gmail.com</a>> To: <a href="mailto:xorg@lists.x.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">xorg@lists.x.org</a> Subject: Does xquartz require root privileges to run on MacOS? Message-ID: <CAG9BPSX1DWbZEuNC3BU-Fi6tAX649=uQpEykJN1P+QA=Da=<a href="mailto:6GA@mail.gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">6GA@mail.gmail.com</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I'm looking at xinit code here at the launcherd portions: <a href="https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/app/xinit" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/app/xinit</a> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <<a href="https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg/attachments/20250706/29d30b41/attachment-0001.htm" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg/attachments/20250706/29d30b41/attachment-0001.htm</a>> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2025 18:46:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Vladimir Dergachev <<a href="mailto:volodya@mindspring.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">volodya@mindspring.com</a>> To: gene heskett <<a href="mailto:gheskett@shentel.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">gheskett@shentel.net</a>> Cc: <a href="mailto:xorg@lists.x.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">xorg@lists.x.org</a> Subject: Re: Question about the future of Xorg Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.22.394.2507061841050.52313@iridium> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" On Sat, 5 Jul 2025, gene heskett wrote: > On 7/5/25 01:32, Vladimir Dergachev wrote: >> There are many developers having fun with Xorg. Some on the list, some not, >> some will reply to you, some not. >> >> There might be some that are employed to work on Xorg. In USA that usually >> means two weeks notice, so that is the total extent of the "commitment". >> If they have to switch to a new job it will likely displace any open source >> contributions for at least a month. >> >> People having fun produce good code. Don't mess with it. >> >> best >> >> Vladimir Dergachev > Rant on: > > And this, Vladimir, is the clearest, most concise description of the problem > I have seen.? My path thru life has been that of keeping a television station > on the air and profitable. Along that line I have coded up a couple projects > on "company" time. Projects the station needed but no one sold. So I bought > the hardware and wrote the code.? Then sold them the hardware.? ?Code that > turned out to so handy it was used for decades. Nice! > That is/was unheard of, > control room hardware gets replaced by competitive pressure or mechanical > wear out years before the tax write off is complete. TV news people are hell > on hardware, but get the story regardless. But as quick as I could get the > parts, they got the busted ($7500 to repair)?camera back to go wreck them > again. Now I'm 90 and 23 years retired and it would take me the rest of my > life to wrap my head around a quarter of the code xorg maintains. No problem then:) You don't actually need to mess with a quarter of xorg code, as most of xorg works just fine. The only problem that might arise is lack of support for newer cards. This is an issue we had before 25 years ago, and as Carsten and Alan explained to me is much easier now as Wayland compositors don't have their own drivers at all, but rather use mesa and other kernel interfaces. So, if necessary, it should be possible to write an Xorg driver that does the same. best Vladimir Dergachev ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2025 20:40:58 -0400 From: gene heskett <<a href="mailto:gheskett@shentel.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">gheskett@shentel.net</a>> To: <a href="mailto:xorg@lists.x.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">xorg@lists.x.org</a> Subject: Re: Question about the future of Xorg Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:0ec984e9-2cbc-4f66-9647-23cef32f279c@shentel.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">0ec984e9-2cbc-4f66-9647-23cef32f279c@shentel.net</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 7/6/25 18:46, Vladimir Dergachev wrote: > > > On Sat, 5 Jul 2025, gene heskett wrote: > >> On 7/5/25 01:32, Vladimir Dergachev wrote: >>> There are many developers having fun with Xorg. Some on the list, >>> some not, some will reply to you, some not. >>> >>> There might be some that are employed to work on Xorg. In USA that >>> usually means two weeks notice, so that is the total extent of the >>> "commitment". >>> If they have to switch to a new job it will likely displace any open >>> source contributions for at least a month. >>> >>> People having fun produce good code. Don't mess with it. And you are obviously much closer to that code than I will ever be, given my remaining time on this ball? of rock and water. But why can't I run synaptic from a shell? >>> >>> best >>> >>> Vladimir Dergachev >> Rant on: >> >> And this, Vladimir, is the clearest, most concise description of the >> problem I have seen.? My path thru life has been that of keeping a >> television station on the air and profitable. Along that line I have >> coded up a couple projects on "company" time. Projects the station >> needed but no one sold. So I bought the hardware and wrote the code.? >> Then sold them the hardware. ?Code that turned out to so handy it was >> used for decades. > > Nice! > >> That is/was unheard of, control room hardware gets replaced by >> competitive pressure or mechanical wear out years before the tax >> write off is complete. TV news people are hell on hardware, but get >> the story regardless. But as quick as I could get the parts, they got >> the busted ($7500 to repair)?camera back to go wreck them again. Now >> I'm 90 and 23 years retired and it would take me the rest of my life >> to wrap my head around a quarter of the code xorg maintains. > > No problem then:) > > You don't actually need to mess with a quarter of xorg code, as most > of xorg works just fine. The only problem that might arise is lack of > support for newer cards. > > This is an issue we had before 25 years ago, and as Carsten and Alan > explained to me is much easier now as Wayland compositors don't have > their own drivers at all, but rather use mesa and other kernel > interfaces. > > So, if necessary, it should be possible to write an Xorg driver that > does the same. When debian switched I thought it was good, but years later I am still stuck with NON GUI apt to stay current with the rest of the system. Why can't I have a gui like synaptic so I can see whats available BEFORE I install it? > best Back at you. > Vladimir Dergachev Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2025 00:05:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Vladimir Dergachev <<a href="mailto:volodya@mindspring.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">volodya@mindspring.com</a>> To: gene heskett <<a href="mailto:gheskett@shentel.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">gheskett@shentel.net</a>> Cc: <a href="mailto:xorg@lists.x.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">xorg@lists.x.org</a> Subject: Re: Question about the future of Xorg Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.22.394.2507070002010.52313@iridium> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Sun, 6 Jul 2025, gene heskett wrote: >> >> No problem then:) >> >> You don't actually need to mess with a quarter of xorg code, as most of >> xorg works just fine. The only problem that might arise is lack of support >> for newer cards. >> >> This is an issue we had before 25 years ago, and as Carsten and Alan >> explained to me is much easier now as Wayland compositors don't have their >> own drivers at all, but rather use mesa and other kernel interfaces. >> >> So, if necessary, it should be possible to write an Xorg driver that does >> the same. > When debian switched I thought it was good, but years later I am still stuck > with NON GUI apt to stay current with the rest of the system. Why can't I > have a gui like synaptic so I can see whats available BEFORE I install it? >> best With KDE (kubuntu) there is "Discover" package manager that runs from user space. It asks you for root password before you install. I actually thought that's how synaptic worked as well, but maybe I forget. Starting X apps as another user will not work unless you share your Xauthority file or disable that. best Vladimir Dergachev > Back at you. >> Vladimir Dergachev > Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. > > -- > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. > - Louis D. Brandeis > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2025 02:02:11 -0400 From: gene heskett <<a href="mailto:gheskett@shentel.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">gheskett@shentel.net</a>> To: <a href="mailto:xorg@lists.x.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">xorg@lists.x.org</a> Subject: Re: Question about the future of Xorg Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:211e5be9-bac6-4928-9da6-488114844a62@shentel.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">211e5be9-bac6-4928-9da6-488114844a62@shentel.net</a>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 7/7/25 00:05, Vladimir Dergachev wrote: > > > On Sun, 6 Jul 2025, gene heskett wrote: > >>> >>> No problem then:) >>> >>> You don't actually need to mess with a quarter of xorg code, as most >>> of xorg works just fine. The only problem that might arise is lack >>> of support for newer cards. >>> >>> This is an issue we had before 25 years ago, and as Carsten and Alan >>> explained to me is much easier now as Wayland compositors don't have >>> their own drivers at all, but rather use mesa and other kernel >>> interfaces. >>> >>> So, if necessary, it should be possible to write an Xorg driver that >>> does the same. >> When debian switched I thought it was good, but years later I am >> still stuck with NON GUI apt to stay current with the rest of the >> system. Why can't I have a gui like synaptic so I can see whats >> available BEFORE I install it? >>> best > > With KDE (kubuntu) there is "Discover" package manager that runs from > user space. It asks you for root password before you install. > > I actually thought that's how synaptic worked as well, but maybe I > forget. > > Starting X apps as another user will not work unless you share your > Xauthority file or disable that. I thank you for your interest. Disable? How? I'm the only user, and I can sudo anything else UNTIL I try to run synaptic from a shell. Its available in the bookworm menu's and ask's me for my usr pw and then runs ok on Wayland. But running it directly from a shell with sudo is denied with a snotty msg I assume comes from some non gui app that has yet to reveal its identity.? Using the mouse to activate the menu is frustrating because the mouse, despite being programmed for 1 pixel which should make it slow, actually moves 20 or more pixels just for hovering my hand above it, true with every mouse, mostly logitek M325's, that I have, making it damned near impossible to actually click on the correct name in the menu's gui.? copy/paste opertions have to be undone and re-pasted several times to get it right. It has moved the pointer enough to miss the name by up to 4 names. And this bullet-like speed mouse seems not to be debian related, I'm running 3 3d printers with armbian, jammy is usable but nobel is spastic often refusing to redraw the mouse and all 3 with suitable mice, can move the pointer over all of a 27" monitors with under 2" of mouse motion. I am considering redoing the whole front end using jammy only. I also run 4 metal carving machines with linuxcnc, all running Wheezy as its taken years to get linuxcnc running with python3. Those are also using the logitek M325 mouse but on Wheezy they are good. I'm on speaking terms with OpenSCAD. > best Thank you Vladimir Dergachev Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ xorg mailing list <a href="mailto:xorg@lists.x.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">xorg@lists.x.org</a> <a href="https://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg</a> ------------------------------ End of xorg Digest, Vol 239, Issue 3 ************************************ </blockquote></div></div>