Request for Consensus

Thu Nov 6 07:53:07 PST 2008

Hi James,

The relevant bug reports are

Bug 17821 - update of french-dvorak "bépo" keyboard mapping
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17821

Bug 17822 - please add some news compose combinations to en_US.UTF8 Compose file
http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17822

The description page for dead keys at the Bépo group
http://www.clavier-dvorak.org/wiki/Touches_mortes

For the problem that the Bépo group tries to solve, the other
alternative would be to use
the Compose key (Multi_key). This would require however rethinking of
their layout, as it appears they do not use currently the Compose key
at all.

If the Bépo group were to use the Compose key, they could use sequences such as

<Multi_key> <m> <A> : Greek_ALPHA
<Multi_key> <m> <a> : Greek_alpha
<Multi_key> <m> <B> : Greek_BETA
<Multi_key> <m> <b> : Greek_beta
...
(x2, for <Multi_key> <M>)

From the existing compose sequences that start with <Multi_key> <m>,
we have essentially one clash (<m> <u>):
<Multi_key> <m> <slash> :  0x20A5
<Multi_key> <m> <u>        : 0x00B5

The alternative for dead_currency could be

<Multi_key> <j> ... : ...
<Multi_key> <J> ... : ...

Both M and J are on the same diagonal on a querty (azerty?) keyboard,
and almost similar position on a dvorak-bépo keyboard.

I do not have an objection to adding new keysyms, however it would be
good to record a comment to the above for archiving purposes.

My concern would be for 'dead_greek', and the current set of compose sequences.
The proposed compose sequences follow what is available with the Greek
layout, with the exception of

<dead_greek> <C> : unused
<dead_greek> <c> : unused
<dead_greek> <J> : Greek_THETA
<dead_greek> <j> : Greek_theta
<dead_greek> <Q> : Greek_CHI
<dead_greek> <q> : Greek_chi
<dead_greek> <V> : unused
<dead_greek> <v> : unused
<dead_greek> <W> : Greek_OMEGA
<dead_greek> <w> : Greek_omega
<dead_greek> <X> : Greek_XI
<dead_greek> <x> : Greek_xi

The proposed compose sequences are also dissimilar to another work,
which appears to be used in the US Classics academia,
http://www.frame-poythress.org/poythress_articles/2007KeyboardGreekHebrew.htm

Moreover, the bepo compose sequences define compose sequences for a
small subset only of Greek Polytonic.

The bottom line is that if the dead_key compose sequences could be
made to match what exists in modern Greek, then it should be fine to
call the keysym 'dead_greek'. Otherwise, I would suggest to define it
with a name like 'dead_bepo_greek'.

Hope this helps,
Simos

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 2:29 PM, James Cloos <cloos at jhcloos.com> wrote:
> [I checked the archives to see whether I had missed any replies to this
> and found that the original never made it.  I presume it got lost when
> my laptop's drive locked up (causing a kernel panic). -JimC]
>
> The Bépo group wants to add support for their (cross-platform) keyboard
> to X and are requesting a couple of new dead keys to do so.
>
> I'd like to know how everyone else feels about them before pushing.
>
> The first is a dead_currency or dead_money symbol.  They compose the
> various UCS currency symbols with it.  The relevant compose sequences
> are listed below.  I'm leaning toward accepting this one.
>
> The second is a dead_greek symbol.  It seems that one of:
>
> ISO_Level5_Latch
> ISO_Group_Latch
>
> or even something like SingleCandidate might be the proper answer.
>
> (They already use 4 levels and level3(ralt_switch).)
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on how best to move this forward?
>
> Using the name dead_currency they propose:
>
> <dead_currency> <A> : U20B3
> <dead_currency> <a> : U060B
> <dead_currency> <B> : U20B1
> <dead_currency> <b> : Thai_baht
> <dead_currency> <Ccedilla> : U20B5
> <dead_currency> <C> : ColonSign
> <dead_currency> <ccedilla> : U20B5
> <dead_currency> <c> : cent
> <dead_currency> <D> : U20AF
> <dead_currency> <d> : DongSign
> <dead_currency> <E> : EcuSign
> <dead_currency> <e> : EuroSign
> <dead_currency> <F> : FFrancSign
> <dead_currency> <f> : function
> <dead_currency> <G> : U20B2
> <dead_currency> <g> : U20B2
> <dead_currency> <H> : U20B4
> <dead_currency> <h> : U20B4
> <dead_currency> <I> : U17DB
> <dead_currency> <i> : UFDFC
> <dead_currency> <K> : U20AD
> <dead_currency> <k> : U20AD
> <dead_currency> <L> : LiraSign
> <dead_currency> <l> : sterling
> <dead_currency> <M> : U2133
> <dead_currency> <m> : MillSign
> <dead_currency> <N> : NairaSign
> <dead_currency> <n> : NairaSign
> <dead_currency> <O> : U0AF1
> <dead_currency> <o> : U0BF9
> <dead_currency> <P> : PesetaSign
> <dead_currency> <p> : U20B0
> <dead_currency> <r> : CruzeiroSign
> <dead_currency> <R> : RupeeSign
> <dead_currency> <S> : dollar
> <dead_currency> <s> : NewSheqelSign
> <dead_currency> <T> : U20AE
> <dead_currency> <t> : U09F3
> <dead_currency> <THORN> : U09F2
> <dead_currency> <thorn> : U09F2
> <dead_currency> <U> : U5713
> <dead_currency> <u> : U5143
> <dead_currency> <W> : WonSign
> <dead_currency> <w> : WonSign
> <dead_currency> <Y> : U5186
> <dead_currency> <y> : yen
> <dead_currency> <dead_currency> : currency
> <dead_currency> <nobreakspace> : currency
> <dead_currency> <space> : currency
> <dead_cedilla> <dead_currency> <C> : U20B5
> <dead_currency> <dead_cedilla> <C> : U20B5
> <dead_cedilla> <dead_currency> <c> : U20B5
> <dead_currency> <dead_cedilla> <c> : U20B5
>
> and their dead_greek proposal is:
>
> <dead_greek> <A> : Greek_ALPHA
> <dead_greek> <a> : Greek_alpha
> <dead_greek> <B> : Greek_BETA
> <dead_greek> <b> : Greek_beta
> <dead_greek> <D> : Greek_DELTA
> <dead_greek> <d> : Greek_delta
> <dead_greek> <E> : Greek_EPSILON
> <dead_greek> <e> : Greek_epsilon
> <dead_greek> <F> : Greek_PHI
> <dead_greek> <f> : Greek_phi
> <dead_greek> <G> : Greek_GAMMA
> <dead_greek> <g> : Greek_gamma
> <dead_greek> <H> : Greek_ETA
> <dead_greek> <h> : Greek_eta
> <dead_greek> <I> : Greek_IOTA
> <dead_greek> <i> : Greek_iota
> <dead_greek> <J> : Greek_THETA
> <dead_greek> <j> : Greek_theta
> <dead_greek> <K> : Greek_KAPPA
> <dead_greek> <k> : Greek_kappa
> <dead_greek> <L> : Greek_LAMBDA
> <dead_greek> <l> : Greek_lamda
> <dead_greek> <M> : Greek_MU
> <dead_greek> <m> : Greek_mu
> <dead_greek> <N> : Greek_NU
> <dead_greek> <n> : Greek_nu
> <dead_greek> <O> : Greek_OMICRON
> <dead_greek> <o> : Greek_omicron
> <dead_greek> <P> : Greek_PI
> <dead_greek> <p> : Greek_pi
> <dead_greek> <Q> : Greek_CHI
> <dead_greek> <q> : Greek_chi
> <dead_greek> <R> : Greek_RHO
> <dead_greek> <r> : Greek_rho
> <dead_greek> <S> : Greek_SIGMA
> <dead_greek> <s> : Greek_sigma
> <dead_greek> <T> : Greek_TAU
> <dead_greek> <t> : Greek_tau
> <dead_greek> <U> : Greek_UPSILON
> <dead_greek> <u> : Greek_upsilon
> <dead_greek> <W> : Greek_OMEGA
> <dead_greek> <w> : Greek_omega
> <dead_greek> <X> : Greek_XI
> <dead_greek> <x> : Greek_xi
> <dead_greek> <Y> : Greek_PSI
> <dead_greek> <y> : Greek_psi
> <dead_greek> <Z> : Greek_ZETA
> <dead_greek> <z> : Greek_zeta
> <dead_greek> <dead_greek> : mu
> <dead_greek> <nobreakspace> : mu
> <dead_greek> <space> : mu
> <dead_greek> <dead_hook> <U> : U03D2
> <dead_hook> <dead_greek> <U> : U03D2
> <dead_greek> <dead_macron> <A> : U1FB9
> <dead_macron> <dead_greek> <A> : U1FB9
> <dead_greek> <dead_macron> <a> : U1FB1
> <dead_macron> <dead_greek> <a> : U1FB1
> <dead_greek> <dead_macron> <I> : U1FD9
> <dead_macron> <dead_greek> <I> : U1FD9
> <dead_greek> <dead_macron> <i> : U1FD1
> <dead_macron> <dead_greek> <i> : U1FD1
> <dead_greek> <dead_macron> <U> : U1FE9
> <dead_macron> <dead_greek> <U> : U1FE9
> <dead_greek> <dead_macron> <u> : U1FE1
> <dead_macron> <dead_greek> <u> : U1FE1
> <dead_greek> <UFDD0> <r> : U03FC
> <UFDD0> <dead_greek> <r> : U03FC
>
> -JimC
> --
> James Cloos <cloos at jhcloos.com>         OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6
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