xorg-devel Digest, Vol 122, Issue 12

Sat Mar 9 14:07:54 UTC 2019

Sorry if I'm intruding here, but please don't insult each other on a public
resource like this. You were both under stress from something, and a simple
mistake was made. The mistake has been corrected now. Please don't make
this into an all out war on each other. Just forgive and forget.

On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 2:05 PM <xorg-devel-request at lists.x.org> wrote:

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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Radeonhd repo not migrated to gitlab. (Luc Verhaegen)
>    2. Re: Radeonhd repo not migrated to gitlab. (Daniel Stone)
>    3. Re: Radeonhd repo not migrated to gitlab. (Luc Verhaegen)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Luc Verhaegen <libv at skynet.be>
> To: Daniel Stone <daniel at fooishbar.org>
> Cc: Adam Jackson <ajax at nwnk.net>, xorg-devel <xorg-devel at lists.x.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 02:51:50 +0100
> Subject: Re: Radeonhd repo not migrated to gitlab.
> On Fri, Mar 08, 2019 at 10:27:19AM +0900, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 10:15, Luc Verhaegen <libv at skynet.be> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Mar 08, 2019 at 10:12:17AM +0900, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > > > I'll admit that somewhere between writing migration scripts,
> migrating
> > > > the other 1,268 repos from git.fd.o, maintaining our new and old
> > > > infrastructure, trying to find financial sponsorship for our
> > > > infrastructure, fire-fighting sudden 50% SMTP delivery failure rates,
> > > > bringing up a CI system and maintaining it as it exploded in use,
> > > > supporting people trying to use our new systems by walking them
> > > > through the API and bug-hunting for them, documenting and scripting
> > > > our new infrastructure so it can be replicated, dealing with regular
> > > > influxes of Bugzilla spam, trying to urgently move everyone off
> > > > Bugzilla as it's now abandoned upstream, helping Martin bring up the
> > > > new members.x.org so it's no longer an insanely insecure pile of
> PHP,
> > > > rewriting the fd.o homepage and lists of projects to not be massively
> > > > misleading, working on a lot on Wayland and Weston, working a bit on
> > > > Mesa/KMS/etc, then also doing my actual day job and taking care of my
> > > > personal life, I failed to make the time to specifically ensure that
> a
> > > > driver which has had one commit since 2010 was updated.
> > >
> > > It's just amazing how it is always the same repo and the same person
> > > that receives you and ajax special attention or more or less active
> lack
> > > thereof, depending on the situation.
> >
> > You're right that it is a special case. We only have 5 repos which
> > have a bare directory name (without the '.git' suffix):
> > xf86-video-radeonhd, cairo-5c (Nickle), pycairo and py2cairo (dormant
> > since 2012), and roadster (dormant since 2009), compared to 1,268 with
> > the suffix. Of those, xf86-video-radeonhd is the only one which got
> > migrated to GitLab, which I migrated as soon as it was brought to my
> > attention, after manually renaming the repository since the migration
> > scripts break if the git.fd.o repo does not have the suffix.
> >
> > I assume your next question is why it got quite uniquely created
> > without the suffix in the first place. For that, you'd have to ask the
> > person who created it:
> > drwxrwsr-x 8 eich xorg 4.0K Mar  7 21:31 xf86-video-radeonhd.git
>
> Keithp created it in september 2017. We asked you to do it when we
> happened to be outside of the XDC conference in cambridge in september
> 2007. We also asked you for a mailing list then, and you refused. Keith
> did this in the hours before we pushed code out, an event which, in
> itself, was already badly delayed by ATI not providing a valid open
> source license for us to include atombios code.
>
> Keith went and did the right thing to preserve the integrity of fd.o and
> added the repository.
>
> We ended up getting a mailing list created by our teamlead at SUSE, who
> got us a mailinglist at opensuse.org in the space of minutes, and that
> took us way less time than it took us to ask you and to listen to your
> excuses for not giving us a mailing list fd.o. You later went and bashed
> us for using a "corporate" mailing list.
>
> That was of course years before you went and tried to put the brakes on
> providing a mailing list for the lima driver. A quick look over other
> requests back then showed me that it usually took you many days, often
> weeks, to answer new project requests. But when _i_ asked, a not too
> supportive reply was quickly received. Amazingly, even jcristau felt the
> need to point out the duplicity of the answer to this request.
>
> All of this does not even begin to take into account the clear temporal
> correlation of the hacking of the radeonhd repository with you losing
> your consulting contract at nokia.
>
> Integrity is such a nice word. Somehow it feels like words like
> integrity and custodian belong together.
>
> Luc Verhaegen.
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Daniel Stone <daniel at fooishbar.org>
> To: Luc Verhaegen <libv at skynet.be>
> Cc: xorg-devel <xorg-devel at lists.x.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:15:25 +0900
> Subject: Re: Radeonhd repo not migrated to gitlab.
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 10:52, Luc Verhaegen <libv at skynet.be> wrote:
> > A quick look over other
> > requests back then showed me that it usually took you many days, often
> > weeks, to answer new project requests. But when _i_ asked, a not too
> > supportive reply was quickly received.
>
> I've snipped most of the misleading accounts of history, incorrect or
> invented events, and pure outright defamatory lies that you've spent
> the last ten years posting all over the internet. There's no point in
> responding to them since you just go silent, then pop up six months or
> a year later to tell a new set of people the same old set of garbage,
> in the hope of destroying peoples' reputations and/or careers.
>
> I thought that after some pretty civil interactions recently, and
> quickly and reasonably responding to your request for help with an
> explanation of why the mistake happened in the first place, that there
> was no danger here. But nope, after spending ten years tip-toeing
> around you, ignoring all the bait in the form of lies and defaming my
> character and motivations, but also trying to be 'fair' to the
> community by spending my time actioning your requests like the above,
> that's my reward.
>
> So here's my new and clear policy on Luc Verhaegen: I'm never in my
> life dealing with you again. If you ask for help or in fact any of my
> time, in any forum at all (e.g. here, sitewranglers@, IRC, whatever),
> I'm ignoring it. Even if I am literally the only person who can do the
> thing you ask for, whatever that is, I will flatly refuse to do it. If
> you file an issue which requires my action specifically, it will get
> immediately closed.
>
> > Integrity is such a nice word. Somehow it feels like words like
> > integrity and custodian belong together.
>
> Given all your vindictive and abusive bullying over many years, I
> wouldn't if I were you choose 'personal and professional integrity' to
> judge others on.
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Luc Verhaegen <libv at skynet.be>
> To: Daniel Stone <daniel at fooishbar.org>
> Cc: xorg-devel <xorg-devel at lists.x.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 04:27:15 +0100
> Subject: Re: Radeonhd repo not migrated to gitlab.
> On Fri, Mar 08, 2019 at 11:15:25AM +0900, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 10:52, Luc Verhaegen <libv at skynet.be> wrote:
> > > A quick look over other
> > > requests back then showed me that it usually took you many days, often
> > > weeks, to answer new project requests. But when _i_ asked, a not too
> > > supportive reply was quickly received.
> >
> > I've snipped most of the misleading accounts of history, incorrect or
> > invented events, and pure outright defamatory lies that you've spent
>
> Defamation is a strong word, it means void of truth, void of data and
> facts.
>
> Some googling will provide me with cover for those data points. I
> also think i can dig out the email keithp sent us when he did create the
> radeonhd repo, which will then also include the email that egbert sent
> asking for project to at least you and keith. If needs be i will dig out
> all the bugzilla entries with fd.o admin requests that you personally
> responded to 6 months before and after (which will be laborious enough
> already) i requested fd.o project resources for lima, and expose the
> timeframes there (i will then also add Tollef's response times when i am
> at it). And there's a whole bunch of former nokia guys on this ml, who
> know just when you were thrown off the team and why, and how this was in
> the september/october 2010 timeframe, shortly before you and ajax got
> drunk and did what you did.
>
> > the last ten years posting all over the internet. There's no point in
> > responding to them since you just go silent, then pop up six months or
> > a year later to tell a new set of people the same old set of garbage,
> > in the hope of destroying peoples' reputations and/or careers.
> >
> > I thought that after some pretty civil interactions recently, and
>
> Do you mean you coming to me in the fosdem devroom to convey that Eric
> Faye-Lund would not be able to make it to talk at the devroom that day?
>
> Since you are a colleague of Eric, i had no reason to doubt your
> statements. It would be foolish of me to assume that you were not
> being truthful. Doing so would only hurt the graphics devroom and
> FOSDEM, and it was paramount to inform fosdem visitors, and to then find
> an alternative solution (which we did) to make maximum use of the
> minimal time that the insane effort that is FOSDEM has.
>
> I never have and never will refuse a talk for the graphics devroom based
> on how i like or dislike the person giving that talk. If i could bring
> myself to doing that, i would invalidate any reason for my involvement
> in the devroom and FOSDEM. FOSDEM and the graphics devroom come first.
>
> I will gladly ask nasty questions and will happily give you an earful,
> especially at the delirium bar, as you well know. But i will not
> brazenly affect the devroom schedule in such a way, let alone refuse
> talks that are clear devroom material.
>
> > quickly and reasonably responding to your request for help with an
> > explanation of why the mistake happened in the first place, that there
> > was no danger here. But nope, after spending ten years tip-toeing
> > around you, ignoring all the bait in the form of lies and defaming my
> > character and motivations, but also trying to be 'fair' to the
> > community by spending my time actioning your requests like the above,
> > that's my reward.
> >
> > So here's my new and clear policy on Luc Verhaegen: I'm never in my
> > life dealing with you again. If you ask for help or in fact any of my
> > time, in any forum at all (e.g. here, sitewranglers@, IRC, whatever),
> > I'm ignoring it. Even if I am literally the only person who can do the
> > thing you ask for, whatever that is, I will flatly refuse to do it. If
> > you file an issue which requires my action specifically, it will get
> > immediately closed.
>
> You just communicated that you will now "officially" start doing exactly
> what i claim that you have been doing for many years (amongst other
> things). This as a response to me reiterating that very claim? How does
> that work?
>
> On its own, this very statement precludes you from doing any custodial
> work on any project. It also clearly displays that you feel that there
> are tasks at freedesktop.org which can only be dealt with by yourself.
> As if declaring that you will refuse to handle valid requests for
> freedesktop.org resources, purely on the basis of interpersonal issues,
> is not bad enough already.
>
> > > Integrity is such a nice word. Somehow it feels like words like
> > > integrity and custodian belong together.
> >
> > Given all your vindictive and abusive bullying over many years, I
> > wouldn't if I were you choose 'personal and professional integrity' to
> > judge others on.
>
> Say what you will, but...
>
> I have never refused anyone mailing lists or other project resources.
>
> I have never silently removed anyone from planet.freedesktop.org. (1)
>
> I have never silently removed drivers from build scripts.
>
> I have never "lent" my root key to facilitate drunken hacking of
> repositories.
>
> I have never used root of a project hosting facility to vandalize
> projects. (2)
>
> And there's a ton of other, more minor, things i could add to that list.
>
> Luc Verhaegen.
>
> (1) was halfarsedly claimed by Dave Airlie a few years down the line.
> (2) was claimed by Adam Jackson, but Daniel his rootkey was used, and
> Daniel claimed this to be his only involvement.
>
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