<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial> <DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>>"When you say boards with OGL ES graphics chips come with the drivers in them, do you mean the OGL ES driver is inside the graphics chip?"</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>inside box.. on CD or floppy :-)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>____________________________</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>you got right to the point there actually, drivers do belong in hardware, if you ask me... i just fail to see why not</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>we already do have pixel/vertex shaders, which is, roughly speaking, a way to put software(drivers) into hardware..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>but what scitech already did do, is that they "isolated" all platform and OS specifics out of the drivers (device code)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>so, we have: one device <-> one driver (+ os/platform specifics)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>AMD if wanted could put those Scitech binaries *inside* the chip and you would just get your +os/platform specific code on CD or floppy...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>the same thing is with OpenGL ES drivers, as long as something is "standard enough" drivers can be made easily to support multiple OS and architectures (separate device code from os/cpu code)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>the best thing with OpenGL ES is that - it came to be as no other standard before, in computer video industry</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>as you know well, in windows and in linux nothing works without drivers... and if you look around the internet all the problems people EVER have is because of the drivers...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>> Help, my ______ is not working? my OS is _____</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>where in most cases soulution is just to go somewhere and download and install correct driver ...</FONT><FONT face=Arial>unless, of course, it is hardware fault or virus</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>and these OpenGL ES drivers are just like SciTech *os/platform independent*, and as long as they are like that its fine - no real need to be inside the hardware... i do believe, however, they will soon start doing this... and as a matter of fact you might be right after all - its not impossible that OpenGL ES chip comes with some 'driver' inside</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial> <P><A href="http://www.compulab.co.il/x270/html/x270-cm-datasheet.htm"><FONT size=2>http://www.compulab.co.il/x270/html/x270-cm-datasheet.htm</FONT></A><BR><BR><FONT size=2>But apparently $350 for one board.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=2></FONT> </P> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="http://www.barnardmicrosystems.com/L3_avionics.htm">http://www.barnardmicrosystems.com/L3_avionics.htm</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>...........</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>it looks to me that modifying bumstix to use OpenGL ES might be a matter of only purchasing OPTIONAL 2700G chip that somehow can be connected to that "LCD controller", that would be great</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>howover, the only board that does offer that option right now seem to be one you found:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>CX-X270</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="http://www.compulab.co.il/x270/html/x270-cm-datasheet.htm">http://www.compulab.co.il/x270/html/x270-cm-datasheet.htm</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>i can not find any similar boards with nvidia/fujitsu/ati(amd) graphic chips, but i think soon there will be some, and all OpenGL ES boards are compatible within one OS, no matter if its x86 or ARM or other</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>OpenGL ES seem to be very well supported by manufacturers - that means that bumstix, even as an ARM architecture is not a problem anymore.. at all! everythig is there - SDKs, development kits, 3D modeling software, 3d visualisation engines.. everything! </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>so, i was wrong... there IS lots of people that DO compile for ARM and apperantly it all works rather smoothly!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>ah, buy the way... since ARM is popular platform</FONT><FONT face=Arial> it might be quite possible to have OpenGL *without* 2700G chip, i was only worried that we might not be able to compile stuff for ARM easily and i thought no one would ever bother to port mesa there... /</FONT><FONT face=Arial> "CRT controller" does seem to be doing the job of being "video chip", where it would be preferable to have one with as much framebuffer as possible (framebuffer = "VRAM" - video memory), only the memory that "LCD controllers" can utilize seem to be only 'normal' RAM (SDRAM)</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>in New Zealand, no one seem to have ever even heard of anything like bumstix, the closes thing i can buy is DELL pda, full device with PXA270, but its $800 and doesnt have 2700G</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>so i oredered one of these from australia, i hope ill have it in a week</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>CX-X270 </FONT><FONT face=Arial><A href="http://www.compulab.co.il/x270/html/x270-cm-datasheet.htm">http://www.compulab.co.il/x270/html/x270-cm-datasheet.htm</A></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>one of my goals now is to make Linux based OS that will work just the same if you boot it on PC, laptop, mobile phone or anywhere else where OpenGL can run - with </FONT><FONT face=Arial>universal embedded/desktop *3D windowing sytem* built with OpenGL, visualy similar to - Compiz/Beryl/Vista/MacosX</FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>the other thing id like to be able to do is - to make a board even SMALLER than bumstix</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>only to have CPU-RAM + GPU-VRAM pairs on it !</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>and get rid of all serial/parallel, ac97, wi-fi, advanced PCMCIA, I/O, COM.. well anything but CPU+GPU and memory they need.. / </FONT><FONT face=Arial>i would instead put only few BUT much more Plug'n'Play' oriented connectors - like USBs for keyboard/mouse and also couple TV-out CRT/LCD connectors like on graphic card, so it would be easily pluggable just like any other PC.. its possible to connect pretty much any device to usb and it wouldnt require any additional accessories(there might be even more suitable connector for multy-purpose like that)</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>i guess those pin based connectors that they use on bumstix are prefferable if you want to integrate parts tightly together and minimize the use of cables, but (all) connectores could be made two-sided, so that you could do both - connect externaly with cable and/or internaly with some pin/slot connector </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>it looks like such *CPU+GPU only* combo could fit on 1/3 of bumstix </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>i'll try to conntact AMD to see if that can be ordered (it looks like thats exactly what they offer, when they say - design your own board!), </FONT><FONT face=Arial>cost of that stripped board might be even less that $70, especially if oredered directly from AMD</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>they dont mention if thats open for individuals/hobbists or only for companies that order large volumes..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>i also sent e-mail to bomstix sales@ - to ask if they provide optional 2700G chip and if there are any price drops on volume orders, since there is nothing even close to that here in NZ, it seems i could make business just by importing bumstix and selling customized embedded solution kits or something like that, i guess i could also make my own Linux based mobile phone or PDA or Linux "GameBoy" or whatever : - ) </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>cheers,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>p.s. did you get myOS running?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="http://one.xthost.info/zelko/opengl.html">http://one.xthost.info/zelko/opengl.html</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>********************************************************************************************************</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>********************************************************************************************************</FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.khronos.org/consumers/product_details/goforce_5500/"><FONT size=2>http://www.khronos.org/consumers/product_details/goforce_5500/</FONT></A><BR><BR><BR><A href="http://www.khronos.org/consumers/product_details/fujitzu_mb86297_graphics_display_controller/"><FONT size=2>http://www.khronos.org/consumers/product_details/fujitzu_mb86297_graphics_display_controller/</FONT></A><BR><BR><BR><A href="http://www.khronos.org/consumers/product_details/intel_2700g_multimedia_accelerator/"><FONT size=2>http://www.khronos.org/consumers/product_details/intel_2700g_multimedia_accelerator/</FONT></A><BR><BR><BR> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A href="http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolutions/ProductInformation/0,,50_2330,00.html">http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolutions/ProductInformation/0,,50_2330,00.html</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>there is lot to read, but what i see, they let you modify and customize products, so maybe you can order directly from them your custom-made "gumstix"... / </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>their stuff is mainly x86 which is good..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>********************************************************************************************************<BR>********************************************************************************************************<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>if not that, </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>than you MUST have *something* with that Intel 2700G, thats great chip!! </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>its based on GPU they used in SEGA Dreamcast !!!! </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>its OpenGL ES and is fully accelerated !!</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>**** The 3D accelerator is capable of processing about 831 000 triangles per second.****</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>that probably is not quite true, but if it is thats around what average game on playtation1 would need, im very surprised, that is FASTER THAN MOST OF DESKTOP LINUX platforms, not because the chip is better than dektop nvidia/ati cards but because drivers for Linux are terrible... this is GREAT, hope its not too expensive</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>i dont know about you,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>but im going shopping 1st thing tomorrow morning.. hopefully they sell that stuff here..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>i guess, i can always buy full device, like whole phone if theres one with 2700G chip </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV><FONT size=2>********************************************************************************************************</FONT><BR><BR><BR><FONT size=2>Do you have a hardware or software product that takes advantage of the <BR>Khronos media technologies? Submit your Khronos technology product listing <BR>today. Be sure to include a representative screenshot or product shot! <BR></FONT><A href="http://www.khronos.org/consumers/category/C70"><FONT size=2>http://www.khronos.org/consumers/category/C70</FONT></A><BR><BR><BR><BR><FONT size=2>gumstix does seem to be only the only one to make anything of that size, i <BR>wonder how long before they do put some of above processors on gumstix <BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>EmbeddedDeveloper - engineers start your next project here<BR></FONT><A href="http://www.embedded-developer.com/dev_tools/?id=4"><FONT size=2>http://www.embedded-developer.com/dev_tools/?id=4</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>********************************************************************************************************<BR>********************************************************************************************************<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>A little more info, not sure you saw this: </FONT><A href="http://docwiki.gumstix.org/Display"><FONT size=2>http://docwiki.gumstix.org/Display</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>sheesh, if thats the best info we are in trouble...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>however, now we know there are controllers with and without framebuffer, where ones with fb could be much what graphic chip is.. thats good</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>if gumstic can confirm that it can run X11 on VESA drivers thats *green light*</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>if they tried to compile mesa or get OpenGL running they could tell us that too</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>unfortunately for ARM everything is in mesa/Xorg hands to get OpenGL run</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>however, </FONT><FONT face=Arial>for other platforms you have choice of these:</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>SciTech's products include, SciTech </FONT><FONT face=Arial>SNAP Graphics, </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>a fully accelerated binary compatible graphic device<BR>driver solution for Enterprise, Thin Client and Embedded systems, and<BR>SciTech MGL, a professional graphics library used to speed development<BR>of today's multi-OS software programs. SciTech products support Linux<BR>(with or without X11), Qt/Embedded, Windows NT, Windows 9x, Windows CE,<BR>OS/2, On-Time RTOS 32, and DOS operating systems and now support x86,<BR>x86-64, Power PC, and MIPS (32 and 64bit) processors. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>********************************************************************************************************<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV>btw,<BR>this might prove useful, its the cheapest hardware store i know of..<BR><BR>*****************************************************************************<BR>*****************************************************************************<BR>17'' laptop AMD Turion 64 '' $599 refurbished, in most cases they are all <BR>brand new!<BR><A href="http://www.saveateagle.com/av7155ea1-ref-v14.html">http://www.saveateagle.com/av7155ea1-ref-v14.html</A><BR><BR>you might know about: <A href="http://www.saveateagle.com/">http://www.saveateagle.com/</A><BR><BR>*****************************************************************************<BR>*****************************************************************************<BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>