<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>"Please read spec OpenGL, OpenGL ES,
EGL..."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>i did try, im just stupid for it, reading about ES
spec did not answer question about hardware dependancy, about availabilty and
quality of drivers or do they exist at all, do i want to use them and why,
whats the speed gain compared to OpenGL on same hardware... i dont think the
specs can answer these questions, because, i believe, that heavily depends on
particular implementation of it for particular hardware, in other words its
about drivers.. again</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>EGL spec.. yes, that would help, where is
it?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>why do i feel im not welcome here? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>do you suggest that my questions are not
appropriate here? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>i maybe have failed to read some 'rules', please
advise?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>"..also look at all previous attempts to get
rid off X, i am confident we can say they all failed."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>im sorry, you dont seem to understand, its about
*embedded* window system, there is no embedded X, even less OpenGL based one, so
its clear - i want to produce, not replace or 'get rid off'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>i dont mean to distract busy people doing more
important, real work,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>im only asking for DIRECTION, you dont have to
give me a ride, or go into trouble to answer my questions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>how do i:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- talk to this Linux community?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- find if im not trying to do what already has been
done?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- gather people to work on a project?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>- find about project and join/help some
project?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>in short, where do i find about - "..sharing
data is a first step towards community"?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>IBM Linux ad: </FONT><A
href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=EwL0G9wK8j4"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>http://youtube.com/watch?v=EwL0G9wK8j4</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>if not here, thats ok, just tell me where then,
please?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>and just a note on - "find if im not trying to do
what already has been done?"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>beside all my questions, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>i did come here with information that no one
else seem to knew about, simply, i wanted to "share the data"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>now, if you would rather people use EGL that
has ".. been in limbo for a while" </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>or </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>use miniglx which ".. is a hack. It
filled a specific need when it was created.."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>than ok, but if you dont want to re-write what has
already been written(possibly better) than im happy i could have helped by
making it EASY for others to SEE, experiment and then decide if its worth using
or not</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>i can not SEE how EGL, miniglx, fbdev/dri works, it
has not been made easy, and therefore i've come here to ask for help, which i,
kind of regret, as people are so keen to jump and say how my project sucks and
is not "real work"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>if someone did this 3 years ago, EVERYTHING
could have been different, maybe quite a bit actually, just how many people
"wasted" their time to "come up" with something that was long ago written
and was only a mouse click away? i've learned this lesson long time ago - 1st
find whats best on the net, then try to do it better, otherwise you would likely
be wasting your time..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="http://www.scitechsoft.com/ftp/snap/linux/readme-x86.txt">http://www.scitechsoft.com/ftp/snap/linux/readme-x86.txt</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM>Linux based OpenGL development system without
X</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="http://one.xthost.info/zelko/opengl.html"><EM>http://one.xthost.info/zelko/opengl.html</EM></A></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>cheers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>zelko</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=1><EM></EM></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=1><A
href="http://one.xthost.info/zelko/opengl.html"><EM></EM></A></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=j.glisse@gmail.com href="mailto:j.glisse@gmail.com">Jerome Glisse</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=zelco@xtra.co.nz
href="mailto:zelco@xtra.co.nz">ZeAtShuttle</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=s0238762@sms.ed.ac.uk
href="mailto:s0238762@sms.ed.ac.uk">Ioannis Nousias</A> ; <A
title=xorg@lists.freedesktop.org
href="mailto:xorg@lists.freedesktop.org">xorg@lists.freedesktop.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:34
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Khronos group, OpenGL
ES/miniglx/EGL?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>On 4/18/07, ZeAtShuttle <<A
href="mailto:zelco@xtra.co.nz">zelco@xtra.co.nz</A>>
wrote:<BR>><BR>><BR>> ZeAtShuttle wrote:<BR>> > -or maybe this
"OpenGL ES" GPUs are 'too small' for that or maybe they<BR>> > only come
integrated with other hardware in those mini-devices? is<BR>> > OpenGL
ES exclusively for other(smaller) hardware, not PC?<BR>> I've came across
this related to the AMD/ATI fglrx 8.36.5 driver:<BR>> <A
href="http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=685&num=1">http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=685&num=1</A><BR>><BR>><BR>>
I'm quoting:<BR>> "In this driver are two new files: /esut.a/ and
/glesx.so/. These are<BR>> new X.Org modules for the fglrx driver and
specifically involve<BR>> TexturedVideo and OpenGL ES"<BR>><BR>>
might be worth looking<BR>><BR>> -Ioannis<BR>><BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>><BR>> thanks, thats
interesting.. it confuses more, as i was moment ago sure that<BR>> it has
to be something about hardware architecture.. but apperantly its
not<BR>><BR>><BR>> i wonder now what kind of stuff OpenGL ES is
supposed to be used for? if ES<BR>> is just a smaller/faster version of
OpenGL, than i want it, even if its only<BR>> a subset of OpenGL ... is
therea way then to run ES apps from console in<BR>> full-screen, without
X?<BR>><BR>> actually i know a little bit, as i understand ES doesnt
have glBegin and<BR>> glEnd calls, so i believe its definitively something
about more speed<BR>><BR><BR>Please read spec OpenGL, OpenGL ES, EGL and
all gl related spec are<BR>freely available, and i am sure you can google
description of it. As many<BR>other already stated what you want to achieve is
requiring a really big<BR>chunk of new code and i don't think anyone here got
time to devote to<BR>such project, moreover if such project ever end up in
somethings<BR>working this won't be before months, years of hard work. I don't
think<BR>this is the way to follow right now. If we ever want to get hardware
out<BR>of X handling we have to reach such aim by little improvement,
even<BR>if taking off hw management from X might be somethings good,
i<BR>don't believe throwing away the X protocol & X server is really a
good<BR>solution, maybe you should look a bit more into this, also look
at<BR>all previous attempts to get rid off X, i am confident we can say they
all<BR>failed.<BR><BR>For OpenGL ES compatible hw i would say that all not so
old GL pc graphics<BR>card are able to handle all ES specs, in fact most of
them are able to<BR>handle a lot more than ES (as OpenGL ES is a subset of
OpenGL), to my<BR>knowledge you won't find any free driver that give you ES,
only free driver<BR>capable of taking advantage of 3d hw i am aware off are
DRI driver.<BR><BR>best,<BR>Jerome Glisse<BR><BR><BR>-- <BR>No virus found in
this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>Version: 7.5.446 /
Virus Database: 269.5.2/766 - Release Date: 4/18/2007 7:39
AM<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>