<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2180" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV>hi,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>> I can pretty much assume Scitech is *SOFTWARE* OpenGL, this is no
use<BR>> as you've found so you've got something small but quite useless
for<BR>> actual real work, so you really haven't got something at
all...<BR></DIV>
<DIV>huh.. thanks? dont know what to say.. </DIV>
<DIV>why do you jump to assumption just to say that something sucks?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>have a look at this:</DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.rocklyte.com/athene/index.html">http://www.rocklyte.com/athene/index.html</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Uses SNAP graphics technology from <A
href="http://www.scitechsoft.com/">SciTech Software</A> instead of X11. </DIV>
<DIV>
<LI>Graphics throughput is <A
href="http://www.rocklyte.com/athene/benchmarks.html">17% faster than Microsoft
Windows</A> and <I>at least</I> <A
href="http://www.rocklyte.com/athene/benchmarks.html">25% faster than X11</A>.
</LI></DIV>
<DIV>
<LI>Fast booting - between 5 and 10 seconds on modern hardware. </LI></DIV>
<DIV>...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>hows that for "quite useless for actual real work", what say
you?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>i thought effort in that direction would be welcome and that there are some
alternatives, but miniglx seem to be abandoned in favor of EGL and EGL doesnt
really exist, or what Brian would say - </DIV>
<DIV>".. been in limbo for a while" </DIV>
<DIV>or</DIV>
<DIV>"Mini GLX is a hack. It filled a specific need when it was created
but <BR>I'm not sure it's an appropriate base for large projects."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>and i just hoped that EGL effort has moved to yet some other project, so my
main question really boils down to:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>is there anything better than scitech at this moment?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>or </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>is there an -active- project with a goal of making windowing
system with OpenGL as primary graphic API - X built with OpenGL not
requirement for it?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>i have searched for previous mention of it, and all i figure out is that it
miniglx/EGX -> xgl/xegl were supposed to be "base" for it, but has everyone
abandoned these projects? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>would it not be easier to 'convert' X to OpenGL if it was not
requirement to use OpenGL?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>would it not be easier to make OpenGL drivers if they were not "bundled"
with X, for Open Source as well as for ATI/nVidia?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>SciTech did it quite nicely, and I believe they do have solution
to<FONT face=Arial size=2> "device driver crisis", just like they did once
before with VESA..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT4396090607.html">http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT4396090607.html</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>btw, i couldnt care less for scitech except that im thankful they
did OpenGL thing and released it GPL, but did i mention that these are not
just graphic OpenGL-MGL drivers, its a 'technology' - SNAP.. complete
i/o, interrupt and other device drivers, ALL you need to build complete OS or
app like X.. its really compact, it works and its all Plug'n'Play...
(OpenGL driver is single file, 800kb)<BR></DIV>
<DIV>how many companies are doing/have done this much for the Open software and
improving/unifying graphic standrds, how come no one is using scitech now, why
no one even wants to consider to have a look at it?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>cheers,</DIV>
<DIV>zelko</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message -----
<DIV>From: "Dave Airlie" <<A
href="mailto:airlied@gmail.com">airlied@gmail.com</A>></DIV>
<DIV>To: "ZeAtShuttle" <<A
href="mailto:zelco@xtra.co.nz">zelco@xtra.co.nz</A>></DIV>
<DIV>Cc: "xorg" <<A
href="mailto:xorg@lists.freedesktop.org">xorg@lists.freedesktop.org</A>></DIV>
<DIV>Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 7:43 AM</DIV>
<DIV>Subject: Re: Mini-Compiz on Miniature Linux/OpenGL (embedded 3D window
system)</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>> ><BR>>> my goal is to produce (for start) really
tiny and simple Compiz-like "window<BR>>> manager", the main concern is
size and speed... and by size i mean very<BR>>> tiny: 1 - 2 MB<BR>>
<BR>> A single 3D OpenGL driver is this size.. the DRI drivers are all
~3MB,<BR>> fglrx is ~10MB..<BR>> <BR>> I can pretty much assume Scitech
is *SOFTWARE* OpenGL, this is no use<BR>> as you've found so you've got
something small but quite useless for<BR>> actual real work, so you really
haven't got something at all...<BR>> <BR>>> since everyone is probably
laughing (id be too, few months ago), i might<BR>>> start by showing its
possible,<BR>>> actually, there is already complete WORKING development
environment for<BR>>> it... thanks to SciTech drivers it can run OpenGL
without X, which cuts in<BR>>> size just enough, but not only that... its
setup free, its plug'n'play...<BR>>> well, have a look, hope you'll find
it interesting:<BR>>><BR>>> Linux based OpenGL development system
without X<BR>>> <A
href="http://one.xthost.info/zelko/opengl.html">http://one.xthost.info/zelko/opengl.html</A><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
now, these scitech drivers are great considering all the stuff that
is<BR>>> going(not going) on with Linux drivers, but the most important
part, for<BR>>> COOL effects, is not (fully) HW accelerated, like draw to
textures,<BR>>> blending... but, still... 3D cube desktop and all the
-window distortion-<BR>>> effects can be done as it is! im not sure if
some of the earlier ATI cards<BR>>> that got specs out maybe even fully
accelerated there, but no one seem to<BR>>> use/know about these drivers
so its hard to find out..<BR>> <BR>> They aren't accelerated if you are
that small and they don't have a<BR>> kernel component..<BR>>
<BR>>><BR>>> its all about drivers, OpenGL drivers,<BR>>> i've
tried these as well, but could not make them work:<BR>>><BR>>> *
fbdev/DRI<BR>>> * directFB<BR>>> *
GGI/libGGI<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> can someone, please, answer
this:<BR>>><BR>>> 1.) are there any similar projects to
this?<BR>>><BR>>> 2.) anyone keen to help me make fbdev/DRI(miniglx)
or GGI version of the<BR>>> system?<BR>> <BR>> You want EGL or
miniglx, you'll have to ship only open source drivers<BR>> which with miniglx
pretty much means possible radeon, intel, and mga<BR>> hw...<BR>>
<BR>>><BR>>> 3.) who knows if its possible to "convert" binary
ATI/nVidia drivers to work<BR>>> without X?<BR>> <BR>> No not
possible.<BR>> <BR>>> 4.) anyone knows whats going on with that Khronos
group, OpenGL ES and<BR>>> stuff, can that be used on x86 platform? with,
maybe some ATI mobilty cards<BR>>> or someting? is that just 'some'
specification or are there some drivers<BR>>> there for some
hardware?<BR>> <BR>> Not for any PC class hardware, EGL is what you want
to implement it<BR>> just that the open source EGL hasn't proven as
interesting as people<BR>> wanted so hasn't gotten much momentum.. and people
are busy doing<BR>> other stuff....<BR>> <BR>> Dave.<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> -- <BR>> No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>> Checked by
AVG Free Edition.<BR>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.1/765 -
Release Date: 4/17/2007 5:20 PM<BR>> <BR>></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>